MonkInTheCellar Discussion

[keith]

File under Things I Learned from Brother Jesse:

I did not realize until I read post CCXCIX that contemplative prayer had such a specific meaning. After reading a bit and listening a bit (I did not fall asleep) at Fr. Meninger's contemplativeprayer.net site I would agree with Jesse that it is a religious practice "older than dirt."

I was somewhat surprised to learn upon further reading that there is considerable controversy about the practice.

[Dave]

I didn't know it was controversial, except possibly to those who assign specific burdens to prayer.
Intercessory prayer, adoration (worship) prayer, prayer for expiation. Of course, it hardly seems plausible (to me) that God ordained such a taxonomy to be used to get to him on the correct channel. He seems too humorous for that.

This thought is not original with me, but I think prayer is desire. See Brother Jesse's Easter message at:

monkinthecellar.blogspot.com/2011/04/7-happy-easter.html

Brother Jesse and I don't share the same set of beliefs, but we do agree on prayer.
Don't miss the song at the end of the video, which sums it up.

[keith]

This is one of the things I read when I wrote of controversy.

www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_ContemplativePrayer1.html

One question that still bothers me: When the Trappists of St. Benedict's Monastery set up their web site did they use alter servers? (I don't think I could use that in Today's Bad Pun.)

Although I make intercessory prayers, when I have thought about it they seem presumtuous. Who am I to remind God of some detail that seems to have been overlooked?

[Dave]

Interesting article. I think the author takes the writing of Merton, Keating and Pennington as pronouncements, however. The author seems to be coming from the point of view of modern day Protestantism that has more of a tendency to seek a monolithic understanding of God and religion, which of course is the opposite of what has happened.

Probably the single most misunderstood ... or I should say not understood ... aspect of Catholicism is its pluralistic nature of inquiry. Many Catholics don't get it and certainly it is foreign to any fundamentalist (literalist) Protestant. But for example, in the eastern Orthodox church, one's conception of God and how one should communicate is left to the individual, whereas in the West we tend to want to define it.

In my understanding of Catholicism, adherents may pursue the Holy Spirit in whatever way works for them. They are not allowed to proselytize others with views that are contrary to the Catholic Church's traditional teaching. But that would concern dogma of the church, of which there are surprisingly few that must be held by adherents in order to call themselves Catholic. (IF that is important to them.) This surprises people because of the immense body of rules that overtook the Church in the past few centuries and the absolutely silly stories, lore and blockheaded inanities foisted upon the past few generations of Catholic school children.

Many people tend to forget there was a Church long before we got it in the 20th century. (In fact, I've read strict Biblical literalism wasn't even popular before the end of the 19th century.) In addition to the likes of Augustine and Aquinas, the Desert Fathers, from whom we have received much of Christianity, were indeed inquirers and seemed not hung up on codifying something so immense that it defies understanding. Merton et al continue that tradition. Their thoughts and writings have been beneficial to many people seeking a spiritual journey. A small part of their work, but of course known more widely than the rest of their opus, has been their suggestions for private prayer, all based on over a thousand years of monastic tradition that the author of the article appears to have little appreciation for.

Still, it can't be denied that contemplative prayer smacks of selfishness. I mean, it isn't praying for your neighbor, world peace or parking spots for those going to court to help out domestic violence victims. Does God care? I think it was Augustine who said God has no need of us to tell him anything. I don't think he cares, frankly. He seems a gentleman. He just wants to dance, as in Lord of The Dance. Which may be the reason why according to some he does indeed find parking spaces.

[Dave]

Keith, I think I might Jesse-ize the above and use it in MonkInTheCellar. There are apparently readers over there who for some reason don't "guest" in here. It's not that the above post is all that much of a jewel, but I can use it as an interlude in the story.

[keith]

On Father's Day morning my thoughts are on my father. Although he said all the conventional prayers during church services (including acting as a lay preacher when needed), I believe his real method of prayer was in the community services he performed.

I've mentioned his trips to areas suffering floods or hurrricanes to assist in the rebuilding. Today I think of another service he performed at his own church. For many years he served as "sound engineer" during the church service. He would sit at his control board and adjust sound levels as needed, raise the mic level at the lectern when there was a speaker or the remote mic on the pastor if he stepped down into the congregation, bring everything down when the choir sang so there was no feedback.

This also gave him the means to tape each service. Later my mother would dupe the tapes so they could distribute them to the list of shut-ins they maintained.

[Dave]

Have a meaningful Father's Day!

I wonder if your father would have appreciated this:


MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone. Amen
-Thomas Merton, "Thoughts In Solitude"


Other quotes from Merton at:

www.octanecreative.com/merton/quotes.html

[Dave]

It is sad to lose one's father. My Dad died in 1989 and his last years were not pleasant, lying in a nursing home and missing my mother who had died two years before. He and I often did not see eye to eye on things in his later years. He was a staunch Catholic till the day he died, and I'm sure afterward too if such is possible or allowed. Still, it was like losing the Sergeant in front of me marching up some hill in battle. Of a sudden, I found myself in the lead with an eerie feeling, as though a sort of protection had just left me. And that I was now alone, brothers and my own family notwithstanding.

www.windsweptpress.com/jackfam.pdf

[keith]

Thanks Dave,

The Merton quote was excellant. I'll read more later, I need to prepare for Father's Day festivities now.

[keith]

I've been looking for a complete instructional book on Contemplative Prayer to be posted as a downloadable pdf. Yes, it's true; I'm waiting for the eManual.

[Dave]

Let me know if you find it. I've read a number of references from Merton and I read Keating's most popular book, "Open Mind, Open Heart," his how-to on contemplative prayer.
I've done a little. It's not an area of large interest to me, but I had thought I'd like to get further into it.

[keith]

I went back this morning to read the piece on Jack's family. Even though I know that I have read both the Jesse version & the Windswept press versions previously, it still grips me. It will take awhile to work my way through the Merton quotes.

[keith]

Re: the Balloon

The OD Special Edition is a great touch.

[Dave]

Hahahaha! I had fun with it.

I'm getting tired of the story, such as it is. I really like the characters, but they are a bit thin since I don't spend a lot of time on them. I was going to pick a few and give them much more story and presence in the epic. Terd seemed a like character with his troubled spirit. But my interest is flagging. As soon as I hit upon an idea for turning Monk into a book, I'll probably stop trying to think up more story and get busy with the rewrite .. or a new write. I really like the concept and some of the parts. I just need a sort of a vehicle to carry it in. If I could think of a few hundred interesting spiritual topics where I could produce a decent piece on each, I would get busy and produce what I'd really like the book to be ... a 365 day somewhat humorous but spiritually sensitive devotional. That would be a really fun project.

[keith]

I think each of us has reached a point where it is legitimate to judge activities by the standard of "what interests me this week." If doing something else for a bit freshens the creative juices, it's your decision to make. If it's fun for Dave, that meets the prime objective. If it interests Keith (and possibly Dick) that's a bonus.

Whatever you decide to do, if you want to share I'll be glad to read it, my friend.

Random flash of memory: Back near the beginning of Jesse's tale, when it was revealed that Jesse was piggy-backing on Lance's Wifi, you (Jessse?) asked if it was borrowing or stealing. My answer: sharing.

The church has a term for the sharing of body & blood, is there a word for the sharing of thoughts, feelings & ideas?