G F/Obliston Lecture COMMENTARY

[fiona]

A separate unlocked thread for questions, comments, images, anecdotes or photos. Please post here.

[Dave]

The lecture looks really good, Fiona. Sorry I can't be there.
Dave

[fiona]

I'm sorry too, Dave, because I know you would enjoy it. I will try tp put as much of it up here as I can. Be well.

[Dave]

A thread to make comments or ask questions about the content of the Genesee Flats/Obliston Lecture, etc.

[Dave]

Fiona, is the photo in Reply No. 39 of the long hallway that ran the length of the building on the back? It's narrower than I would have thought. (I'm assuming it's similar to the original Genesee Flats.)

[keith]

Fiona, is the ceiling collapse at the Historical Society building affecting your lecture?

[fiona]

Yes, Dave, this is a back hallway. They are narrow and all the same. I would say less than five feet wide. About the Flats, I think the answer is yes. You could probebly drop one inside the other with no problem. I have more pics to put up of hallways in the future, as well as windows and air shafts. Keith, yes to your question. The ceiling in the main lecture/display hall collapsed. I have a pic of it up on my facebook page and in the OD also. The lecture will be rescheduled, and Dave, this could fall in your favor re: you're coming up here. I have been assured of that and Thanks Be To God that no one was injured. Also they called me this morning to tell me that none of my stuff was in the cases! I was sweating that one out. So, guys, tell me what kind of pics you want to see? I have over 50 more, all different of the insides, yard, ect. I am no where's near done with this. I am going to post the yard next, then the front detail and then the faces. Saving the best for last!

[Dave]

Fiona, that's good news that your stuff was not harmed. As for additional photos, I don't know what was still in existence when you took pictures, but I'd like to see anything special, e.g., restaurant, the penthouse and views. I remember you told me once one could see the Psych center main building from atop either the GF or Olbiston.

[fiona]

Dve: I don't have any pics of he restaurant, which is now several apartments, and that is also the penthouse. However, I do have lots of beautiful shots of the city looking west from the 7th floor. I will post them as soon as I can. the whole photo book is at OCHS. Also have nice views of the roof. Will do.

[Dave]

Sept 12, 2010 17:30:59 GMT -5 fiona said:

Now here's an image I find compelling: the head of a bull with birds pecking out the eyes. Are these doves?

Fiona,
That's a strange theme to have on a building that replaced one gutted by fire. Pecking out one's eyes by birds was a favorite punishment of either real or mythological history. I believe it came from the story of Prometheus sentenced to that punishment for giving fire to mankind. Did Latcher somehow envision this as his future punishment for giving fire to the residents of the G.F.?

What or who would the head of a bull symbolize?
This is beginning to make me wonder if there isn't a message in all of the artwork across the facade. Maybe Latcher was trying to say something and had the architect include relief carving or castings to make his point. Maybe he was telling us who started the fire.

PS: is all of this sandstone carving as far as you can tell, or cement castings?

[Dave]

I'm pretty sure we have someone on this forum who is familiar with the Masons and maybe that person will make suggestions.

Also, I'd guess the bull might represent the "head man." So it could be Latcher or his partner, whose name escapes me at the moment. The confectioner, Latcher's father-in-law. Milton .....

[fiona]

Milton Northrop.

[keith]

The sun & moon and corn,wine & oil are all prominent masonic symbols. The useage may go back even further, in Chronicles King Solomon promises payment to the King of Tyre of wheat, barley, wine and oil. Corn in Europe is what we would term grain and our corn would usually be termed maize in Europe. I have never seen them presented in the fashion shown here but Utica has always been diverse and styles vary.

The birds and bull is sort of a puzzle. (By the way I think Prometheus lost his liver to the birds each night but my reading of Bullfinch was a long time ago.) Bulls often represent the hyper-masculine (Europa kidnapped by Zeus in the form of a bull.) Birds are often seen as feminine.

Of course I look at the sculpture and immediately see a visual pun "hen pecked."

The representation of real people in architectural sculpture has a long tradition. It's interesting to find so many examples here.

[fiona]

Keith: you looked at the photos. I see the sun and moon, corn and a goblet of oil or wine. If you view them what do you see? And if you hadn't read my dialouge, what would you think these carvings represent? You know, I just thought of something... mabye it's not a bull, but a cow... that would change the whole mythological dynamic. The cow was sacred to the Egyptian Goddess Hathor. And aren't cows sacred to Hindues who believe in reincarnation?

[keith]

Upon further review: I've normally seen the sun represented by a full disk the moon by a crescent. The two heads facing outward does remind me of the Roman god Janus.

I don't know of a standard representation of corn, wine & oil. I've seen corn represented in the American style (maize) and also in an older or European style (a sheaf of grain). Strangely, pictures I've seen of Roslin Castle in Scotland (which is said to have Knights Templar connections) has carvings of what appear to be American maize.

The goblet can be fairly assumed to represent wine. Oil is a bit more problematic. What sort of container would one choose?

A couple other features of the carvings are suggestive. If you visit any Masonic lodge you will see two columns. The capitals of the columns are decorated with a network of leaves and pomegranate. Your photos have something similar.