New Series in the OD

[keith]

Some interesting info here

www.uticaod.com/lifestyles/x1876477217/Uncovering-Uticas-Past
especially in the side bars.

[Dave]

Thanks, Keith. Seems as though some of the Underground RR "passengers" would have passed through Jon's favorite beat, Post Street.

[fiona]

hi. all. I just sent e mails to both you, Dave, and Jon about this series with 2 nice photos. I think you will like them. You should have them by now.

[keith]

This is not part of the series but I found it interesting.

www.uticaod.com/opinion/x2069640506/Guest-view-An-afternoon-in-a-junkyard

[Dave]

I don't mean to belittle his prose, but it reads like the writing of a younger person. He was an English professor? That aside, Google maps shows Fort Schuyler Park between Second and Third where Main Street crossed at one time. I can't tell from the satellite shot if the park is functional, but it's labeled as being there. I wonder why "my fellow scholars at various East Utica coffeeshops" missed it.

Here's what the Daily Press said about Ft. Schuyler Park on August 17, 1951. (Click on the link below for the full size readable version. Depending on your browser, you might have to click the image once or twice.)

www.windsweptpress.com/images/ftschuyler.jpg

[Dave]

But by 1958, the place was a shambles, as reported in the press. I didn't make a high resolution of this story.

[Dave]

Here's an "update" from 1982. (The Arterial? He must have meant 5S, built after I left town. Do Uticans call that the Arterial too? Like Darryl and my other brother Darryl?

[Dave]

Yup, they weren't lying.

[Dave]

And it appears Ft. Schuyler was sort of a problem even in 1896. Notice the location is stated as the intersection of Main St. and Park Ave, the latter forming a line along which Utica's parks (squares) were situated.

[keith]

OK, I learned more from you than I did from Professor Nassar.

When I first moved to Utica (1984) people referred to the North-South Arterial and the East-West Arterial. I don't hear thsat so much now. At the time I was still having trouble with Routes 5, 5S & 5A. The 2nd time I got off the Thruway at Utica, I ended up on Herkimer Rd when I wanted to be on Broad St.

[Dave]

Hahahaha! You didn't learn it from me. It's from that wonderful old newspaper site, fultonhistory. If the Internet has a Congregation of Rites, they should offer for canonization to sainthood Tom Tryniski.

[fiona]

I very vaguly remember my father talking about Old Fort schuyler Park. That area, where third Ave is cut off, I believe was part of a thriving working class Irish immigrant community beginning in the late 1840's. That's where the breweries, McQuades, The Gulf Brewery, Ennis Bottling Works, ect were all located. My great great grandfather, Christopher Ennis lived across the road from the bottling works on Third Ave after he emigrated from Ireland in 1845, and then, Boston. He was a blacksmith, as well as a bottle maker - glass blower - I think they called them pontil men - As usual, I have searched and there is liitle or no history of that area. I have also heard that there was a large community of Shanty Irish who lived in West Utica, near the canal, which is now Erie Street. This makes sense, but as usual, no info to be found. I went down to look at the remains of Post St last week. It is a very short street and very narrow - more like a lane or a wide alleyway. I paced out the width of the street by looking at the original red curb stones- reddish stone - not painted red. All those houses must have been a stones throw from each other, closer even. What surprised me was how close it is to Grace Church - right behind it really - the disparity, even to my modern sensabilities, is amazing. I wanted to photograph, but it was raining. I am going to have to wait for cooler weather for this project. Despite the fact that the newspapers at the time said it was eradicated, I saw some really really old structures there.

[Dave]

That's pretty interesting, Fiona ... that you saw evidence of really old structures on Post Street. I hope you have the opportunity to pursue them and let us know what you find.
Were they on the north side?

[fiona]

I think Post street runs North, south, but the structures were facing West. mabye I'm confused... I plan to be in that area on August 9th. As a matter of fact, the old central fire station, which is now a law library, is not that deep of a building. I don't know how far back into the Avenue they extended it, but Post Street is quite narrow, When I think of all those people crammed into that small area, with possibly no sanitation , a mud paved street, no wonder it was cheek to jowl with disorderly houses, ect. Anyone living there never had a chance. I am not surpised there was small pox, quite possibly TB also. From what I have read in all these reports, it sounds like something, a European ghetto from the middle ages. I wonder who owned all these buildings? Certaintly not the people who lived in them. And another thought... what purpose did all this so called social evil serve in the cultural scheme of things? It certaintly kept the police busy, the judges busy, the jails full, the city coffers full. Plus, all these people had to 'work" somewhere. Let's not forget that the upper class Victorians had a world view of "nobless oblige". They certaintly weren't going to do the work - all these Well's and Miller's and Munson's and Proctors and Searle's and Latcher's, ect, ect, in there big houses" up the hill". Like it or not, it was to their benefit to maintain an underclass of servants to do the really bad scut work -launderesses and night soil carriers and garbage haulers, even prostitutes. The immigrant Irish were, by the 1870's, moving up into jobs as brewery workers, house maids, governesses, gardeners, tavern and store owners, cigar makers, craftspersons, as you know. As this happened, the unfortunates of Post Street flodded in to fill up the gaps available in the jobs the Irish and the German's no longer wanted. It stands to reason this would happen. I mean, what ethnic group was left - the Indians??? Not very likley they would be doing any of it.

[Dave]

I copied the above post to the "Post Street Blues-Fiona at the library" thread.